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	<title>Comments on: Tom Palmer on G.A. Cohen</title>
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	<link>http://atlasnetwork.org/networknews/2009/08/07/tom-palmer-on-ga-cohen/</link>
	<description>Advancing freedom around the world</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 06:53:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Douglas B. Rasmussen</title>
		<link>http://atlasnetwork.org/networknews/2009/08/07/tom-palmer-on-ga-cohen/comment-page-1/#comment-9105</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas B. Rasmussen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 18:41:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Gentlemen:
It seems that both of you are discussing Cohen on the basis of your personal knowledge of him as well as his writings.  So,  it is hard to know who is right.
But it does seem that if a person regrets the passing of the Soviet Union, then this is not a very admirable thing to know about that person, to say the least.  Finally, Tom is certainly correct to note that "being witty" is not enough.
Best to you both,
Doug</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gentlemen:<br />
It seems that both of you are discussing Cohen on the basis of your personal knowledge of him as well as his writings.  So,  it is hard to know who is right.<br />
But it does seem that if a person regrets the passing of the Soviet Union, then this is not a very admirable thing to know about that person, to say the least.  Finally, Tom is certainly correct to note that &#8220;being witty&#8221; is not enough.<br />
Best to you both,<br />
Doug</p>
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		<title>By: Tom G. Palmer</title>
		<link>http://atlasnetwork.org/networknews/2009/08/07/tom-palmer-on-ga-cohen/comment-page-1/#comment-7904</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom G. Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 03:27:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atlasnetwork.org/networknews/?p=4497#comment-7904</guid>
		<description>Dear Christopher (if I may),

I have, of course, heard much about you and read, admired, and learned from your writings.

Please allow me to respond to some of the points you made.  "Snide" may be in the eye of the beholder, but "unwarranted" is a different matter.  He enjoyed a substantially higher income than the vast bulk of the human race -- as do you and I -- and made a point of not giving to charity, unlike those of us who don't share his ideological fixations.  The idea that he was somehow exempted from any moral pull of charity until the whole social system should change is a truly striking position.  Regarding his statements on the USSR, you really must look them up. The statement is hardly what one would expect of a decent person.  He wanted the USSR to be there -- it "needed" to be there -- so that he could think in his "non-capitalist mental space."  How special for him.  No mention of what it meant for that regime to be "there."  You know, as every even minimally aware person knew, that it meant forced labor.  It meant arrest for reading illegal poems in public, or even in private.  It meant being spied on, beaten down, sent to labor camp, arrested for no cause other than one was at the wrong place at the wrong time, shot, disappeared.  I know many people who suffered terribly from what Cohen considered a necessary condition for his parlor musings.  Anyone who could write that, or regret the passing of the USSR in 1995, was not the decent person you represent, any more than a jovial and witty Nazi apologist or mocker of the holocaust could be a decent person.

Yes, Cohen took Nozick's book seriously, at least, the one chapter with which he was acquainted.  He didn't bother to read much else.  He didn't bother to read Locke carefully (as he demonstrated to me during our conversations), or Pufendorf (to clarify the meaning of "community" of resources, a task he didn't think worth his time, although he put a lot of weight on it in his own writings), or the critiques of socialism, or, frankly, anything on institutions.  He read one very clever and important chapter in one book.  Why should I be terribly impressed by that?   I'm not.

I don't accuse him of Stalinism.  You have been led astray by a red herring.  Stalin did not somehow pervert the USSR or lead it astray, as later Soviet apologists insisted.  It was perverted from the start.   Lenin and Trotsky, the leaders of the coup (against the authentically revolutionary Kerensky government) initiated the policies of oppression and murder, as a great deal of scholarship has proven.  Cohen's support of the USSR makes him complicit in its deeds, not at the level of liability to criminal punishment, but certainly at the level of meriting strong moral condemnation.  Would you feel the same way about someone who wrote that the Third Reich "needed to be there," for any reason whatsoever, even so he could think about its defects and how to do a better job?

Finally, my experience, as someone who actually read his work seriously (it seems that very few did; they did not bother to follow his logic, but simply assumed that it was clever and right), was certainly quite different from yours.  He was extremely agitated and upset, as he had to admit that his "argument" did not lead to his "conclusion," and later intervened to ensure that my article was not published in two journals.  I'm rather confident that in that particular discussion, about "conclusions" and "arguments," we did not misunderstand each other.  He admitted that the conclusion did not follow, but wanted to know if I was criticizing the conclusion or the argument.  What would it mean to criticize a conclusion?  It highlights the extreme intuitionism and the religiosity at the base of his thinking.  He was quite committed to those conclusions, and the commitment was not connected to the relationship to the premises.  

Being witty is not the same as being a scholar, and it is no compensation for a lack of moral seriousness and responsibility.  Many people supported Communist tyranny in the twentieth century, as many supported Fascist tyranny and National Socialist tyranny.  Those who admitted their errors should be differentiated from those who did not, and even more so from those who openly and actively regretted the passing of those tyrannies.

Cordially,
Tom G. Palmer</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Christopher (if I may),</p>
<p>I have, of course, heard much about you and read, admired, and learned from your writings.</p>
<p>Please allow me to respond to some of the points you made.  &#8220;Snide&#8221; may be in the eye of the beholder, but &#8220;unwarranted&#8221; is a different matter.  He enjoyed a substantially higher income than the vast bulk of the human race &#8212; as do you and I &#8212; and made a point of not giving to charity, unlike those of us who don&#8217;t share his ideological fixations.  The idea that he was somehow exempted from any moral pull of charity until the whole social system should change is a truly striking position.  Regarding his statements on the USSR, you really must look them up. The statement is hardly what one would expect of a decent person.  He wanted the USSR to be there &#8212; it &#8220;needed&#8221; to be there &#8212; so that he could think in his &#8220;non-capitalist mental space.&#8221;  How special for him.  No mention of what it meant for that regime to be &#8220;there.&#8221;  You know, as every even minimally aware person knew, that it meant forced labor.  It meant arrest for reading illegal poems in public, or even in private.  It meant being spied on, beaten down, sent to labor camp, arrested for no cause other than one was at the wrong place at the wrong time, shot, disappeared.  I know many people who suffered terribly from what Cohen considered a necessary condition for his parlor musings.  Anyone who could write that, or regret the passing of the USSR in 1995, was not the decent person you represent, any more than a jovial and witty Nazi apologist or mocker of the holocaust could be a decent person.</p>
<p>Yes, Cohen took Nozick&#8217;s book seriously, at least, the one chapter with which he was acquainted.  He didn&#8217;t bother to read much else.  He didn&#8217;t bother to read Locke carefully (as he demonstrated to me during our conversations), or Pufendorf (to clarify the meaning of &#8220;community&#8221; of resources, a task he didn&#8217;t think worth his time, although he put a lot of weight on it in his own writings), or the critiques of socialism, or, frankly, anything on institutions.  He read one very clever and important chapter in one book.  Why should I be terribly impressed by that?   I&#8217;m not.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t accuse him of Stalinism.  You have been led astray by a red herring.  Stalin did not somehow pervert the USSR or lead it astray, as later Soviet apologists insisted.  It was perverted from the start.   Lenin and Trotsky, the leaders of the coup (against the authentically revolutionary Kerensky government) initiated the policies of oppression and murder, as a great deal of scholarship has proven.  Cohen&#8217;s support of the USSR makes him complicit in its deeds, not at the level of liability to criminal punishment, but certainly at the level of meriting strong moral condemnation.  Would you feel the same way about someone who wrote that the Third Reich &#8220;needed to be there,&#8221; for any reason whatsoever, even so he could think about its defects and how to do a better job?</p>
<p>Finally, my experience, as someone who actually read his work seriously (it seems that very few did; they did not bother to follow his logic, but simply assumed that it was clever and right), was certainly quite different from yours.  He was extremely agitated and upset, as he had to admit that his &#8220;argument&#8221; did not lead to his &#8220;conclusion,&#8221; and later intervened to ensure that my article was not published in two journals.  I&#8217;m rather confident that in that particular discussion, about &#8220;conclusions&#8221; and &#8220;arguments,&#8221; we did not misunderstand each other.  He admitted that the conclusion did not follow, but wanted to know if I was criticizing the conclusion or the argument.  What would it mean to criticize a conclusion?  It highlights the extreme intuitionism and the religiosity at the base of his thinking.  He was quite committed to those conclusions, and the commitment was not connected to the relationship to the premises.  </p>
<p>Being witty is not the same as being a scholar, and it is no compensation for a lack of moral seriousness and responsibility.  Many people supported Communist tyranny in the twentieth century, as many supported Fascist tyranny and National Socialist tyranny.  Those who admitted their errors should be differentiated from those who did not, and even more so from those who openly and actively regretted the passing of those tyrannies.</p>
<p>Cordially,<br />
Tom G. Palmer</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Morris</title>
		<link>http://atlasnetwork.org/networknews/2009/08/07/tom-palmer-on-ga-cohen/comment-page-1/#comment-7704</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Morris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 01:25:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atlasnetwork.org/networknews/?p=4497#comment-7704</guid>
		<description>Tom (if I may),

Economists and philosophers can all distinguish between the conclusion of an argument and the argument itself (i.e., the premises linked together). I suspect your encounter here was a misunderstanding.

Your comment about rich friends is snide and unwarranted. Cohen did have some rich egalitarian friends and was perplexed by their commitment to egalitarianism (and wrote about this). He also had some moderaretly wealthy non-egalitarian friends. Unlike many he had friends who were not fellow-travellers. His friendships could transcend politics. 

But more seriously you seem to have missed part of the import of Cohen's work to friends of capitalism. He was raised a Communist and took Marxism and communist very seriously. He sought to reconstruct Marx's theory of history so that it looked plausible. In the process he and the other two well-known analytical Marxists undermined the theory so that few can find any plausibility in the story any more. All that is left of Marxism is a commitment to a vision of an egalitarian society. That is a remarkable accomplishment. 

Further, Cohen was one of the few important analytical political philosophers -- the only others were David Gauthier and Jan Narveson -- who took Nozick's book seriously. Cohen spent a couple of decade examining and attacking it. He even wrote an article explaining why Marxists should find it important. 

I'll look up the quotation you cite next month when I return to my office. But I don't see how you can pin any of the standard accusations of Stalinism or complicity in homicide on him. 

I think you miss his importance as a thinker. But were he not also an extraordinary and wonderful human being, I'd not both to pen this note.

Yrs,

Christopher Morris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom (if I may),</p>
<p>Economists and philosophers can all distinguish between the conclusion of an argument and the argument itself (i.e., the premises linked together). I suspect your encounter here was a misunderstanding.</p>
<p>Your comment about rich friends is snide and unwarranted. Cohen did have some rich egalitarian friends and was perplexed by their commitment to egalitarianism (and wrote about this). He also had some moderaretly wealthy non-egalitarian friends. Unlike many he had friends who were not fellow-travellers. His friendships could transcend politics. </p>
<p>But more seriously you seem to have missed part of the import of Cohen&#8217;s work to friends of capitalism. He was raised a Communist and took Marxism and communist very seriously. He sought to reconstruct Marx&#8217;s theory of history so that it looked plausible. In the process he and the other two well-known analytical Marxists undermined the theory so that few can find any plausibility in the story any more. All that is left of Marxism is a commitment to a vision of an egalitarian society. That is a remarkable accomplishment. </p>
<p>Further, Cohen was one of the few important analytical political philosophers &#8212; the only others were David Gauthier and Jan Narveson &#8212; who took Nozick&#8217;s book seriously. Cohen spent a couple of decade examining and attacking it. He even wrote an article explaining why Marxists should find it important. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ll look up the quotation you cite next month when I return to my office. But I don&#8217;t see how you can pin any of the standard accusations of Stalinism or complicity in homicide on him. </p>
<p>I think you miss his importance as a thinker. But were he not also an extraordinary and wonderful human being, I&#8217;d not both to pen this note.</p>
<p>Yrs,</p>
<p>Christopher Morris</p>
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		<title>By: G. A. Cohen</title>
		<link>http://atlasnetwork.org/networknews/2009/08/07/tom-palmer-on-ga-cohen/comment-page-1/#comment-7472</link>
		<dc:creator>G. A. Cohen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Aug 2009 02:41:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://atlasnetwork.org/networknews/?p=4497#comment-7472</guid>
		<description>[...] Also posted at Cato@Liberty and the AtlasNetwork. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Also posted at Cato@Liberty and the AtlasNetwork. [...]</p>
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